Is dreaming of divorce the answer to a happy marriage?
This excellent Ellen Tien article (She’s Happily Married, Dreaming of Divorce) appeared in Oprah a few months ago, but has been steadily making its way around the internets, popping up again, as if new, on CNN.com. Maybe you’ve already read it (about five times, like I have), maybe not, but I’m curious, young married ladies: what say you? Is the writer overly cynical? Simply been married for too long? Wrong five ways ’til Sunday? Or…gulp…correct in her belief that it all comes down to thoughts of divorce in the end? (Nuanced, thoughtful, appreciative of the finer points of marriage…but correct all the same?) Either way, I’m still digging in my heels. It’s going to take an entire army of horses to drag ol’ Jolie to the altar. (And will I be eating my words in a few years? Um, yeah, probably.)
August 26th, 2008 at 2:36 pm
I know, you requested comments from the ladies. I ran across this blog, from CNN’s site, and felt like I had something to offer.
I’ve been married twice, and have one child from each of the marriages. Now I’m a single father again. I’ve noticed a lot of my male friends becoming single fathers as well now. I put both wives through college, supported them while they established themselves and tried be best to cover all the bases while they did so.
Now it seems that women only want marriage when it’s convenient. Why is that?
August 26th, 2008 at 2:45 pm
Thanks for your comment, DennMann — guys are welcome here, too! You might find this article, which appeared today in USA Today, interesting, also. Society seems to be shifting across the board in favor of women, and too often it’s the more sensitive, thoughtful men who are left foundering, I feel. (I have a younger brother who I’ve guided throughout his life, so often try to view things through his eyes.) What do you think?
http://www.usatoday.com/news/health/2008-08-25-guy-behavior_N.htm
August 26th, 2008 at 2:47 pm
Hi Jolie,
I am 24 and just got married a few months ago…and I totally see where she’s coming from!!! sad really lol! once you are married I think something changes mentally where you are a little more boxed in than before and you know it will be harder to get out of than before, so you start thinking about it. When husbands do incredibly stupid things, you think about it even more. I love my husband, but I have wondered why I got married so young (before I was married I figured I want to be with him forever, so why not get married?). We both want to improve our relationship though because there is always room for improvement I think, and I can’t honestly ever see me giving up on our marriage (because I am married to HIM-if it were anyone else, it would be a different story).
In response the the first posters comment-it was not convenient for me to get married as I am supporting my husband through graduate school and a doctorate…
August 26th, 2008 at 4:45 pm
Nadine,
I thought she came across as very bitter and angry. I have only been married for 11 months, and i can only hope and prey that neither my wife or I ever feel like ellen. On a another note, happy belated birthday. Somehow, you seem to still pull off looking like 22.
August 26th, 2008 at 5:09 pm
I was HORRIFIED by that article! I’m not married, but I’ve been with my boyfriend for 9 years and lived with him for 5, and in all practical purposes pretty dang close to married, and I take a little bit of umbrage to Tien’s declaration that saying your partner is your best friend is delusional and/or means you don’t have any friends. I just can’t imagine declaring publicly that I constantly thought about divorce (or I guess the equivalent leaving my boyfriend), and frankly if I felt that way I would divorce/leave him. She just seemed miserable and the only way she can deal with it is by insisting everyone else is secretly also that miserable.
August 26th, 2008 at 6:24 pm
I think this is a fantastic article. It gives insight to those who are married about the new era of women who find marriage constrictive and confining to a degree. And it also may soothe the aches of those who are unhappy before marriage. I am not married, but have been with the same guy since 11th grade and yes, he is my best friend. We are practically married as far as I’m concerned! I just don’t understand this weird trend that we STILL “need” to get married after being with someone for a while. Marriage is paperwork, a commitment is in your heart. I think she is just a product of stringent feminism, and possibly a very feminist mother. Either way, the article got people talking - and I think that’s a job well done in terms of being a writer!
August 26th, 2008 at 7:22 pm
I agree with Howie. It almost seems like she had married young and wished she had waited until she got to “live her life.” I got married at 20. I dated my husband until I was completely positive I wanted and was ready for marriage even though he was ready about 3 years earlier and talked about it all the time. I’m 25 now and couldn’t be happier with how things have turned out and I have no regrets. Of course we have our arguments, nothing is perfect but I believe that when you say your vows you are not only pledging to love the other person forever but to stick together “for better or worse” and in those vows there is no room for divorce. Before my husband and I got married we talked about the possibility of divorce and we both decided it was not an option for us and we would never speak of it again. I feel like that has helped our marriage tremendously. I don’t feel “trapped” at all, in fact, I’m much happier than I would be had I stayed single. Divorce is obviously necessary at times but I believe our society has used divorce as an easy out instead of learning to work through problems.
August 26th, 2008 at 10:06 pm
If every couple lives with one foot out the door the way she described then no wonder over half of marriages do end in divorce.
If you choose to view divorce as an inevitability, where is your incentive to work on your marriage? What I heard her say is that when she’s tired of making the effort, at least that option is open to her. If this is the way marriage vows are now treated, the words “til death do we part” should really be replaced “til apathy gets the best of me.”
I just turned 27 and have been married for three-and-a-half years. Of course I can’t say the “d” word has never crossed my mind during rough times, but it is never a serious thought I have entertained. I don’t understand her point about still having “propects” and “another shot at happiness.” If you’re tempted to leave simply because you can and because you no longer feel like being there, why would another relationship turn out differently? There will always be sparks and excitement for awhile (surely there were some when she got married), but if we aren’t talking about an earth-shattering event such as infidelity or abuse that breaks up a marriage, why would future relationships have a different outcome? If you aren’t willing to work through those issues in your current relationship won’t you be in constant pursuit of “another shot at happiness” until the day you die? The grass always seems greener on the other side.
I’m still a baby when it comes to marriage and so I can’t say for sure how I’ll feel when I’m 16 years in. However my parents have been married for nearly 28 years, my in-laws for over 30. It’s been far from perfect and taken a lof of hard work to get there. It may feel like the “600-pound mosquito in the room” at times, but they also have a level of intimacy I can only pretend to understand, and a life they’ve spent nearly 28 years building together.
DennMann was right. We live in a society where marriages are treated more like an object of convenience then they are lifelong commitments.
August 27th, 2008 at 4:42 am
I think this woman is in a not so great relationship and is projecting on other women.
A big part of marriage is communication. Has she ever mentioned these irritants to her husband? Suggested marriage counciling? How can her husband fix the problem if he is unaware of them? Marriage is a two way street. I think a lot of women sit around sulking and wait for things to miraculously get better or their husbands to notice their unhappiness. It doesn’t work that way. The wife has to meet her husband halfway. Not enough romantic dinners? Hop online and make a reservation at that nice place and set up a date yourself. Need some alone time? Book a hotel room for yourself one night and let your husband now that you’re taking some “me” time. He should be cool with it.
My mother gave me some advice when considering marriage: date the guy for at least two years before getting engaged. By two years, the excitement of the relationship has worn off and you quite trying to impress the other. That’s when a person’s true colors start to show. I think people rush into marriage, which is part of the problem.
I enjoy being married (almost 2 years now), and my husband is my best friend. Yes, there’s give and take, but nothing in life is easy.
August 27th, 2008 at 6:08 am
I love what Tamara and Erin had to say. I’ve been married for only a year, and my husband and I dated for 2 years before we got married. I don’t pretend to know everything - but the lady in the article made me sad. How can we, as women, as a society today - elevate our “right to choice” over our word? Do marriage vows and promises mean nothing anymore? Nothing worthwhile is easy and makes you happy everyday. But my husband is my best friend and I promised to spend the rest of my life with him. I won’t let annoyances and my “right” to choose whatever makes me “happy” for a moment rob me of keeping my word and working on having a fabulous marriage, and spending the rest of my life with my best friend. I hope that makes sense!
August 27th, 2008 at 9:51 am
I got married when I was 21 yrs old. I’m now 35. I love my husband more now than I ever did before. You know what? He’s my best friend. And yes, I have friends.
We both do stupid things. And if I’m being honest, I do way more stupid things than he does. We are all human.
I have NEVER contemplated divorce. Jaime is right. Everyone is always looking for the easy way out instead of communicating.
I could go on and on, but I think most of the comments here cover what I have to say.
August 27th, 2008 at 12:18 pm
As a happily married (9 years) feminist, I very much resent Ms. Tien’s projecting her own sad misery onto other women. Her rant is insulting to anyone with the emotional maturity above a teenager. In fact, I’ve met some teenagers who express more maturity than she does in this article!
This is my second marriage, so yes I’ve done the divorce thing, and that was because I was willing to work on my first marriage but my ex-husband wasn’t, so I said goodbye. That really took him by surprise as he had taken me for granted, just as Ellen Tien takes her husband Will for granted, but a successful marriage takes two willing partners and one partner alone can’t make it work. A successful marriage also requires honest communication, something which a reader is left to wonder if it’s something the writer and her husband have ever attempted.
When I met my current husband, we became friends long before our relationship turned romantic, so we never went through the stage of trying to impress one another. Quite the opposite! We were well aware of one another’s warts from the start. And yes, we are best friends, and yes we both have a very wide circle of other friends. Our marriage succeeds because we consciously act in ways that support it, and we do this because we love each other.
Which brings me to my last point in response to this article. One more thing that a successful marriage requires in spades is love. But mature love is not puppy love, superficial emotions that blow in and out like the wind. It is something that is felt much more deeply and its rewards are much more satisfying and real. Real love is a decision. Does Ms. Tien have the capacity to make that decision? And if she makes that decision, does she know how to nurture it?
August 27th, 2008 at 1:10 pm
Jolie,
In response to your posting of the above USAtoday article.. the very reason men are so confused in this society is a direct consequence of what Tien’s article demonstrates, selfish and unguided views on marriage. 2006 was the first year in this country where there are now more single parents raising children in this country than there are parents still together and an overwhelming percentage of those parents are single mothers. Without an equal, in-home example of what TRUE masculinity is, boys are left to fumble in the dark, grasping at anything and everything that “seems masculine”. There’s a book I read when I was deployed in Iraq last year. Being an only child raised by a single mother with an absent father, it really opened my eyes as to where a true example of masculinity lies. I only wish more boys could read this book and I don’t think it could hurt to shed some insight on the inner-workings of men if women read it as well. The book is called “Tender Warrior” and it’s written by Stu Webber. Read it, let me know if this makes just a bit more sense than Tien’s selfish view of, “if I’m not perfectly happy in my marriage, then there’s something wrong with my husband and it makes me feel better to know that I can go find something better if I want.”
August 27th, 2008 at 1:41 pm
Thanks for the recommendation, Matthew, I will check it out!
August 27th, 2008 at 9:16 pm
I am a guy and damn proud of it. I came across this article and it makes me think of how our culture is headed in the wrong direction. My last girlfriend was like this woman. She was mentally ready to quit at any sign tough times. I suppose I’m just old fashioned but I recognize the symptoms of the type of girl that she represents and I stay clear of them no matter how attractive they are. They are like black holes sucking the life out of everything. I now have a great girlfriend and it seems to be one of those that will move on to something greater. I was in the Navy and got to see how other cultures live. Let me tell you American ladies out there. You have it good. Our culture could be like the Russians or maybe a whole multitude of cultures that don’t give a crap about women. My eyes are wide open coming back to the U.S. I will not be one of these ignorant guys bending backwards for a woman and her children of three other guys. Yuck. I think American men are just gonna start looking elsewhere for their ladies once they experience different cultures of women. American woman’s fascination with the likes of Britney Spears and Paris Hilton are numbered. You can quote me on that.
August 30th, 2008 at 3:23 pm
I found the article funny. But I never idealized marriage and maybe because of that I feel it has been a wonderful thing in my life. I’m a much happier person after marrying, and my husband says he feels the same way.
I guess in the end it is all about being lucky enough to find a compatible person. I was reading a blog from a woman saying that one pet peeve of hers is that her husband wants space in bed, and she loves to cuddle. A reader wrote a comment saying that in her house it’s the opposite. Both my husband and I love to sleep close to each other, and small things like that end up making all the difference in the way you experience a marriage.
August 30th, 2008 at 3:27 pm
Oh, I forgot to mention, we are having our 15-year anniversary in a month!
Jolie, I’m sure some day you find someone you will want to spend the rest of your life with, and then getting married won’t seem a bad idea at all ;-).
September 1st, 2008 at 11:57 am
I’m a 30yr old remarried mother, and I’m fairly happy with my husband. The first marriage broke up due to abuse. After reading this article on CNN I found your blog and I just wanted to say it’s really bothering me. Even when I was married to my first husband I didn’t not sit around “dreaming” of divorce. I don’t do that now either. I wouldn’t call my husband my “best” friend but I don’t really have a best friend either, I have a few friends and that’s all. Does that mean that I’m unhappy and there’s something wrong with my life? Sorry but in her effort to show how women are coming out of the marital box, she sure did stick us in a whole new one. She also could have made her point somewhere between the first 2 paragraphs and the last four. That was the most rambling article I’ve ever read and its convinced me I don’t want to subscribe to that magazine.
September 2nd, 2008 at 6:47 am
i didn’t read her as dreaming of divorce, but of acknowledging it as an option. and i almost fell out of my chair laughing at the bit about the shoes in the doorway and how they’ll one day kill her. my husband has shoes in multiple doorways at a time!
i moved to the other side of the world to be with my husband and that has definately raised feelings of being trapped at times… i think the article just illustrates some of the complexities of married life. marriage does feel confining to someone who wants it all, but it also has a lot to offer and isn’t something i plan to walk away from… not anytime soon, anyway
it seems many people, especially in the united states, hold on to the dreamy ideas about marriage as portrayed in romantic comedies. this article just shows the other side… and she did a good job of illustrating my show-stopper: no matter how annoying the husband can be at times, and even when his parenting style adds to those annoyances, kids need both their parents around, together in the same house. marriage may become an outdated concept, which it actually is where i live now to some degree, but parenting together is a responsibility not to be taken lightly.
and yes we should be very good friends but it *is* important to have other friends as well!
September 5th, 2008 at 10:14 am
Wow, I am 27 years old and have been married for 6 month and have been with my husband for 6 years and we have lived together for 3 years now. I have never once felt this way now after I am married or before. When she refers to older generations and her mother not having any choices and so on, I thought that my situation was exactly the opposite. My mom raised us alone, bc my father left us and she struggled a lot. This experience has not once made me cynical about marriage and I can honestly say that being with the person I love and sharing my life with him has been one of the best experience in my (short) life. Even if it does not last forever, but why worry about that now? The author just seems extremely cynical and I do believe there are many different ways to lead a happy life and everyone has to make their own choices. It really irks me when people just try to give marriage in general a bad reputation and I am sorry to say, that is the one thing I really do not like about Oprah and that is why it did not surprise me that this came from Oprah.com.
September 5th, 2008 at 10:20 am
Oh I also agree that nowdays, most partners have the option to up and run at any moment ( financillay, socially), but trying to make it work and staying is the real challenge. All I can say is that my relationship with my father, who missed 9 years of my life until I saw him again is worse than bad and he suffers the most due to his “selfish” decision when leaving us. So people should think twice and not be so selfish all the time.
October 13th, 2008 at 8:54 pm
Hey, I keep having a dream that my daughter and son in law are getting a divorce. What do think it means? Thanks BJ